are you saved?

[trixa.dollcore]

Dear, your answer makes no sense--first you say you'll never know, then go around and say unless you're born again; so which is which? BTW, Paul himself noted he does not know if he is saved; so what makes you think you're better than Paul?

Can you tell me where you got that information that Paul himself doesn't know if he is saved? I'd like to check on that.

[Milliardo]

Can you tell me where you got that information that Paul himself doesn't know if he is saved? I'd like to check on that.

In the Bible, salvation is referred to as hope; Paul then makes it clear that there is no surety of that until we face Christ's Judgment, and while here we await for this hope: "We wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this we hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently." (Romans 8:23-25). I placed in italics the pertinent points to make it clear what Paul is trying to convey.

[Milliardo]

i didnt say anything about JUST US being saved. ur the one whos assuming! LOL!

Your "friend" here implies as much; are you now denying what she's saying? Look at her post again. So, who made you guys our judges?

[Milliardo]

And, it's not true that what our pastors feed us is all that we know. We read the Bible ourselves.

Then do you go to your churches on Sunday and just silently read the Bible and then go home? No, right? You go there and listen to what your pastor says, then base what you know of the Bible on what he taught, or else you wouldn't have any need for a pastor and a church. Again, Evangelical double speak. I love double speak. 

You yourself was the first to judge us born agains.

Go backread the thread, dear; your Evangelical friend made that first.

[trixa.dollcore]

Then do you go to your churches on Sunday and just silently read the Bible and then go home? No, right? You go there and listen to what your pastor says, then base what you know of the Bible on what he taught, or else you wouldn't have any need for a pastor and a church. Again, Evangelical double speak. I love double speak. 

Go backread the thread, dear; your Evangelical friend made that first.

We do not learn everything from church. That's the big difference between Born agains and Catholics, we do not limit learning about Jesus Christ in the church. We do not silently read the Bible in the church then go home, but we do read the Bible silently everyday. You call it devotion.

[trixa.dollcore]

Your "friend" here implies as much; are you now denying what she's saying? Look at her post again. So, who made you guys our judges?

You were first to judge when you told her that she's thinking she's better than Paul.

**
Regarding Paul, maybe you'd like to check Romans 10:9, a verse close to the passage you mentioned. "That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." and Romans 10:13 as well, "for, 'Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved'."

[Milliardo]

We do not learn everything from church. That's the big difference between Born agains and Catholics, we do not limit learning about Jesus Christ in the church. We do not silently read the Bible in the church then go home, but we do read the Bible silently everyday. You call it devotion.

Catholics also read their Bibles at home; what makes you think we don't? We also pray for wisdom from the Holy Spirit; what makes you think we don't? The problem is that Evangelicals deny they learn from their pastors, when most of what you think you know about the Bible you learned from your pastors--the reflections you make at home are the ones your pastor taught you, or else you wouldn't listen to him and debate him in everything he says. But the mere fact you agree with what he says means there is an assent in what he tells you, and that is the reflection you also use at home. See, you betray yourself in what you say there--you keep on denying the obvious, yet the very things you know were drilled into your head by your pastor.

[trixa.dollcore]

I just said that NOT EVERYTHING we know are from church, but I didn't deny that we also learn from church. And what's wrong with learning from our pastors? All religious sectors have their own leaders.

[Milliardo]

I just said that NOT EVERYTHING we know are from church, but I didn't deny that we also learn from church. And what's wrong with learning from our pastors? All religious sectors have their own leaders.

It's because you contradict yourself, dear. Also, if what you say is true, that not everything you learn about the Bible comes from church, then do you have any original idea that you can share to us that is not found in the 30,000+ Protestant denominations?

[trixa.dollcore]

My point is, it is not just the church that's teaching us, but the Bible.

It's just like this. We may learn from our school and from our teachers, but we may also learn from reading reference books on our own. Maybe our teachers and schools already know what we've learned form such reference books, but the point is, we learned them by ourselves.

We learn from the church and from our pastors, but by daily reading of the Bible, we get to learn more.

[Milliardo]

My point is, it is not just the church that's teaching us, but the Bible.

No, dear, it's what your pastor said that you follow--you merely think it's the Bible, but unless you have some original idea that has not come out of the 30,000+ denominations, then you most likely have heard it sometime somewhere. So, where again is the original idea I have been asking that you supposedly got from reading the Bible? I am still waiting...

[trixa.dollcore]

Do not wait. Because original is what came out from your own mind. What's in my mind, is from the Bible.

[Milliardo]

Do not wait. Because original is what came out from your own mind. What's in my mind, is from the Bible.

So, you have nothing new then? That means what you think you glean from the Bible is what you heard or read from other people. Unless you have something new, then it's just something you've learned from others, which you simply pass on as an "inspiration" but actually has been residing in your subconsciousness all along.

[Mikhail_Sobahn]

(sorry for the double post.)

That is not true. Everything we know is based on the Bible. How can you say that our doctrine is created "on the fly" if you haven't experienced being a born again?

Actually, I have.former VCF member.before they threw me out for not meeting the minimum financial requirements when our family business went kaput.did some research and most of the born again/evangelical religous "organizations" are just fronts being run as a cult/business.

You evangelicals refer to other sources, but since you believe in "sola scriptura" and that faith alone saves, i ask, where are your "other sources?", where are the fruits of your faith?

[trixa.dollcore]

Business? You don't know how much churches spend on missions without getting anything in return. Pastors go to mountains to teach tribal people, missionaries go to other countries wherein teaching of the doctrine is prohibited - even risking their own lives.