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Author Topic: Where do people go after death?  (Read 2147 times)

Puppet Heart

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Re: Where do people go after death?
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2009, 12:52:29 am »
Back to Nature, where they become part of the carbon cycle once again.
Veritas Lux Mea

gurlpowah

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Re: Where do people go after death?
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2009, 06:02:57 pm »
some say we go straight to heaven.
or hell,probably.
but i'd love to think that we're all destined to be in heaven....
spare me.

scarletrain

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Re: Where do people go after death?
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2009, 08:07:16 pm »
a friend and i were talking about this just yesterday. we were talking about how unfair it would be if after you die, you find out that what you believed your whole life was wrong, and because of that you lose out, whether on nirvana or heaven or a good reincarnation.

so maybe, we said, we go wherever we believe we'll go.
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happy_abby

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Re: Where do people go after death?
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2009, 04:39:53 pm »
this topic's really interesting.

i used to question life after death too until i underwent a Bible study. the following link (which contains Jesus' say on the issue, as well) will be hopefully enlightening:

http://www.watchtower.org/e/200710c/article_01.htm
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snickerdoodlexox

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Re: Where do people go after death?
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2009, 03:15:38 am »
you either go to Heaven or Hell.

i know i'm spending the rest of eternity with my Father.

care to join? :)
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Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love just as Christ loved us and gave himself up forus as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God

pach

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Re: Where do people go after death?
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2009, 10:11:17 am »
Back to Nature, where they become part of the carbon cycle once again.


So, going by that reasoning, the human person can be worth no more than her own corpse?
a life of contemplation, reflection and meditation is the best form of life

Puppet Heart

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Re: Where do people go after death?
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2009, 03:49:43 am »
Depends on what you meant by worth.

You start out as carbon, you end up as carbon.
-Principle of Conservation of Matter

That is a person's CHEMICAL worth.

Now, if you were referring to moral worth, that is where the conflict will start, for I believe that humans define morality. I will give you my view of moral worth.

To state it clearly, I will give an analogy.

It is no different from economic worth. For example, in Japan, rice is more expensive than meat. In Japan, rice is "expensive". Compare that to the rice:meat price ratio here in the Philippines. In the Philippines, rice is "inexpensive". Having said that, how are people able to brand "expensive" and "inexpensive"?. That is, through a standard.

(I don't have exact figures, but even if my assumed values are incorrect, I'm trying to point out something else here.)

Now let us turn to morality. It is undeniable that killing is tolerable in other countries. In some countries, people even eat babies. Now, how does one judge the moral worth of actions? Why, through a standard, of course. Let us assume the view of Christianity, for example. To Christians, the act of killing is "immoral", therefore it has negative moral worth. That mere branding of "moral" and "immoral" is a way of defining. And there is my point--humans define moral worth. And another point I was trying to make is that morality is relative.

(The flaw in this analogy would probably be the fact that economics is an exact science and morality is not quantifiable. But basically, my point here is that humans brand things with respect to a standard, hence the relativity.)

Sure, you can say that other factors affect worth.

In economics:
-resource
-geography
-demands
-etc.

In morality:
-religion
-culture
-social norms
-etc.

But how would that address the argument that it is humans who define morality?

Before I completely deviate from the topic, my final statement would be:

Humans are chemically nothing more than carbon, but Humans can define their worth.
Veritas Lux Mea

pach

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Re: Where do people go after death?
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2009, 06:41:02 am »
Yes, thank you for that wonderful explanation. There are relative things in the world, such as currency. 100 pesos is different from 100 dollars. The worth of gold is different from the worth of silver, it's relative

1 liter is different from 1 gallon

1 mile is different from 1 kilometer

But these fall under the province of science and not morality. Is is a moral issue to debate whether 22 gallons of gas is enough for a full tank rather than 15 gallons?

Ofcourse not. It's a technical issue that deserves a technical answer. Now, moving on to the question can we kill human beings?

There can be no technical answer because the dignity of man, of the human person is not quantified. It's an ontological issue, something which deals with the metaphysical underpinnings of man, and therefore, science has no say about the worth of the human being, not even religion only God.

Quote
It is no different from economic worth.


Moral worth is the same as economic worth?

So I can buy a woman as my sex slave for 5000 pesos, is that what you mean?

Quote
Humans are chemically nothing more than carbon, but Humans can define their worth.


This is wrong. Dignity is not measured, because measurement implies limitation. Human dignity cannot be limited because it is not us who say how much human dignity weighs its worth in Gold.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 06:43:11 am by pach »
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Puppet Heart

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Re: Where do people go after death?
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2009, 10:31:54 am »
Quote
Moral worth is the same as economic worth?


I'm sorry I wasn't able to make myself clear. What I mean is that labeling things "good" or "evil", is no different from labeling things "expensive" or "cheap". We always need a standard.

Quote
This is wrong. Dignity is not measured, because measurement implies limitation. Human dignity cannot be limited because it is not us who say how much human dignity weighs its worth in Gold.


If dignity and other moral variables cannot be measured, how come humans can still brand act as "good" or "evil"? Won't you require some sort of standard? Humans may not be able to quantify moral variables, but they still have their own say on morality. And as we have agreed on, it is relative.

Look at it this way:

(-)------------------------0------------------------(+)

In a number line such as this, do you really need to know the exact values in every point of the number line to tell if it is positive or negative? No. You only need one--the origin, point zero. All numbers on the left are negative. All numbers on the right are positive. And who gets to define point zero? Why, humans, of course!

There I go again with relating morality and mathematics, but hear me out first. Look at the ambiguity in human morality. What causes the conflicts? It's the standards. Humans have their own point zero. And with that, they label things "good" and "evil".

If I say "killing is evil", and someone asked me how I came up with it, how would I answer? I know and you know that I couldn't have used an instrument that quantifies morality nor that I even had a moral unit of measure to begin with. I would take some sort of point zero first, a standard that has something to do with my own definition and evaluation of the value of life. All that promotes life is "good" and all that violates it is "evil". There you go, I made my own relative, subjective, opinionated system of morality.

Now, if I were to compress all my ideas into a single question, I would ask:

How do humans judge?
Veritas Lux Mea

pach

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Re: Where do people go after death?
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2009, 07:26:12 am »
Quote
What I mean is that labeling things "good" or "evil", is no different from labeling things "expensive" or "cheap". We always need a standard.


Surely something has to differentiate between ''taste'' and moral standing.

IF moral choices were no better than choosing either vanilla or chocolate, then we'll be damned.

Quote
If dignity and other moral variables cannot be measured, how come humans can still brand act as "good" or "evil"? Won't you require some sort of standard? Humans may not be able to quantify moral variables, but they still have their own say on morality. And as we have agreed on, it is relative.


When I say that dignity cannot be measured, it means that dignity cannot amount to any material value, because dignity is above material value.

It is absolute, it cannot be reduced to laws of supply and demand or even public popularity. This dignity is rooted in the ontological truth of man. Ontos + logos - study of being. Hence, this dignity resides in the being of man, rather than his status.
 
Quote
There you go, I made my own relative, subjective, opinionated system of morality.


That's the thing. you made your own. Test if that conforms to truth. If it does, then your invention is non other than conformity . IF it does not, then it's based on falsehood/error.


Quote
How do humans judge?


Human judge in variable ways. Some judge by desire, some judge by rational persuasion, some judge out of coercion, some judge out of ignorance while some judge out of certitude.

What's the point?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 07:27:43 am by pach »
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sticko_monster

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Re: Where do people go after death?
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2009, 12:34:03 am »
Sa heaven daw tayo pupunta. Yung katawan daw natin sa lupa ay pansamantala lang. Wag daw mag papakasarap at komportable dito. Dapat daw mag look forward tayo na kasama natin ang ating creator. -catholic teachings-
i sell health and wellness products :)
slimming, detoxifying , cleansing.
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